Congratulations on the 60th birthday of Ivan Kostka.
He not only returned to India after many years in the US and Canada, but took on the challenge of settling in Delhi rather than in his native Mumbai.
Since returning 4 years ago, he has battled with Indian bureaucracy, bought a home and a commercial property, registered a company, registered the name of a magazine, started it, got approval from the postal authorities, and has already catapulted the magazine to the front of the mind of the social/ political/ intellectual/ cultural leaders among the majority in India's hindi belt.
All of that is impressive.
But what is most impressive is that his wife and he have done it all without giving even one single bribe!
And that where it is most difficult - in Delhi!
Three cheers!
You make me proud and happy to be an Indian.
Monday, 20 February 2012
Thursday, 16 February 2012
Response from a friend re the Dating of the Vedas
A friend writes:
"You seem to be asking, among other things, Can we prove the Rigveda is not from early AD? Some texts have historical references which make them dateable. For instance, there is development in the astronomy and astrology. That does not seem to be the case in relation to the Vedas....
It is usually said that the Rigveda reflects an early society in N.W. India. Your question is so lateral thinking, that it is difficult to see what would decide it! Maybe I shall get some light on the logic after a while. I'll keep working on it!"
"You seem to be asking, among other things, Can we prove the Rigveda is not from early AD? Some texts have historical references which make them dateable. For instance, there is development in the astronomy and astrology. That does not seem to be the case in relation to the Vedas....
It is usually said that the Rigveda reflects an early society in N.W. India. Your question is so lateral thinking, that it is difficult to see what would decide it! Maybe I shall get some light on the logic after a while. I'll keep working on it!"
Monday, 13 February 2012
Comment by Dr A P Stone on my post re the History of Sanskrit
Dr Stone, author of Hindu Astrology and other books, writes:
"Panini gives rules for the Vedic language where it differs from the Sanskrit he is codifying, under the rubric chandasi. So it is older. Panini also refers to older grammarians of Sanskrit. That much is clear. So I see no problem with Sk. developing from the Vedic language, which was part of the Indo-European family of languages.
A. L. Basham (The Wonder that was India, p. 62) says Rudravarman left one of the earliest dated inscriptions, in correct Sk. of c. AD 150. M. M. Ninan (on the web, The Development of Hinduism, chap. 4) quotes R. Basak, ‘Inscriptions: Their Literary Value I’, in Cultural Heritage of India, vol. 5, p. 397f, saying the Sk. is not all correct. So this is not clear."
My comment on the above is that, whether or not the Sanskirt of this epigraph of circa 150 AD is correct, what we are discussing is the nature of that language in the 2nd century AD and not the 2nd or 3rd millennium BC.
In other words, there is no evidence here which helps us to date Panini or anyone else in any more helpful way.
Clearly, Sanskrit developed out of the early Indo-Aryan languages. The question is when did it do so?
If the earliest epigraphs we have are from the 2nd c AD, and Sanskrit epigraphs take over from Prakrit epigraphs only after the 3rd c AD, that indicates a language rising to prominence only then.
All that throws no light on my question: how do we know that the Vedas were developed more or less at the same time and not over hundreds or thousands of years?
"Panini gives rules for the Vedic language where it differs from the Sanskrit he is codifying, under the rubric chandasi. So it is older. Panini also refers to older grammarians of Sanskrit. That much is clear. So I see no problem with Sk. developing from the Vedic language, which was part of the Indo-European family of languages.
A. L. Basham (The Wonder that was India, p. 62) says Rudravarman left one of the earliest dated inscriptions, in correct Sk. of c. AD 150. M. M. Ninan (on the web, The Development of Hinduism, chap. 4) quotes R. Basak, ‘Inscriptions: Their Literary Value I’, in Cultural Heritage of India, vol. 5, p. 397f, saying the Sk. is not all correct. So this is not clear."
My comment on the above is that, whether or not the Sanskirt of this epigraph of circa 150 AD is correct, what we are discussing is the nature of that language in the 2nd century AD and not the 2nd or 3rd millennium BC.
In other words, there is no evidence here which helps us to date Panini or anyone else in any more helpful way.
Clearly, Sanskrit developed out of the early Indo-Aryan languages. The question is when did it do so?
If the earliest epigraphs we have are from the 2nd c AD, and Sanskrit epigraphs take over from Prakrit epigraphs only after the 3rd c AD, that indicates a language rising to prominence only then.
All that throws no light on my question: how do we know that the Vedas were developed more or less at the same time and not over hundreds or thousands of years?
Frist-hand report from the election frontlines in UP
ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL
By Rhema Rao D’Souza (included on my Blog, by kind permission of ARVP)
Young Rhema joined the campaign trail with ARVP leaders to assess first-hand the travails of the trail, and encountered a life-changing experience…
She traversed Pathardeva district, Gorakhpur and Lucknow,while following the dust and sweat trails of the candidates on her sojourn. Here is her story, edited for length, yet largely in her own words…
She kicks off her journey by first making her way from Lucknow to Deoria (part of Purvanchal, most people here speak Bhojpuri) by train.
We take a train from Lucknow to Deoria, and a 2-hour drive thereafter into the interior of U.P. in the Purvanchal area. On approaching a village, I hear a familiar voice giving a ‘bhashan’ (speech) in a ‘Nukkad Sabha’ (village gathering)…. I am then greeted by the sight of Sunaina Singhon a stage with the bright bold ARVP posterproviding an eclectic backdrop.
I try to grasp the entire picture and fit it into my head – about where I am and what I am about to experience. I am thinking to myself –“utar aaye hum UP ke rajneeti ke Rangmansh par”! (I’ve finally set foot on the political playground of the entire country – UP)…. & this is what it looks like!
Sunaina’s speech is mesmerizing. She speaks like a dream and is giving villagers statistics of foreign countries like France, U.S.A. and Dubai and the debt India has collected over the years and what we can do for India if we begin with changing U.P. What she is able to do is win over the collective goodwill and strike a chord with the people by appealing to their emotions.
After the speech, she personally goes to the villagers reminding them to press the button on the “Torch” (ARVP emblem). It is well past sundown now with no electricity in any of the villages, when we find ourselves making our way with the speakerjeep into other villages, where she meets with more village elders asking them permission to have nukkad sabhas in their areas.
It is well after 1-2 hours that we get to her village (Mathiya) house where we are once again accosted with a big ARVP poster at the entrance wall. The next day we start on a Padyatra into the surrounding villages near Mathiya where Sunaina and her circle leaders (2), and I accompany her. She individually goes to each house and family asking them for votes with yet another set of moving lines and speeches.
We cover a total of 6 villages in this manner and then make it to her Nukkad Sabha – where she is to deliver another speech that day.
As she goes into the villages on a padyatra, her circle team headed by her husband organise the entire logistics for her meeting. All she has to do is speak. Alongside her, members of her circle team give better speeches than Rahul Gandhi! She delivers another shattering speech for over 2 hours in the center of that town on a busy road surrounded by shops, buses,etc. The people accord her undivided attention and actually stay for 3 hours to hear her and her supporting crew.
She even manages to get donations in!!!
Overall this lady has it all figured out, backed with some matchless organization and teamwork that I have not even seen CEOs of MNCs exhibit! She has all the right ingredients for a win... most of all the hard work she has put in! What remains now is to live up to that image and the promises!
In Gorakhpur, I go to the court with the others to file their nominations. This is quite an experience for me as the “only” woman there at the time with male eyes glaring at me in the manner of a pack of wolves.
Briefly, what I experienced was everything I expected it to be like. Maybe because I’ve seen a lot of movies like Gangajal, Yuva etc., which were set in the same tone and background, I identified with it. Overall, I had a fabulous experience though the staying conditions in the villages were a little rough because of the cold weather, though I did know what to expect! It reminded me of my experiences in Africa, Ladakh and Nepal with no electricity, biting cold, open baths with cold water and fields to go relieve yourself in.
It’s sad to see so much of India still in this state and I really hope and pray that the coming set of political leaders will change this situation and make India progressively better with basic infrastructure like road, water, electricity and basic education for all.
Living in fast and furious Mumbai city, we often forget where and what rural India is like!
ELECTION HEAT ROUNDUP: It was quite like what I saw in the movies in my first experience here. Its only when you see posters of bigger parties like Congress, BSP, SP etc. with their big cars and resounding speakersdo you feel the competition.
I think I felt the heat most in the Gorakhpur court when leaders from all different parties came to file nominations. Everyone was inquiring about the other, chitter-chattering, questioning others’ preparations, responses, how their campaigns were progressing, strategies, etc.!
What ARVP has attempted is MISSION IMPOSSIBLE! It isamazing work…
This movement deserves to be moulded into an ocean of good for the sake of our country. Thank you!
ENDS
By Rhema Rao D’Souza (included on my Blog, by kind permission of ARVP)
Young Rhema joined the campaign trail with ARVP leaders to assess first-hand the travails of the trail, and encountered a life-changing experience…
She traversed Pathardeva district, Gorakhpur and Lucknow,while following the dust and sweat trails of the candidates on her sojourn. Here is her story, edited for length, yet largely in her own words…
She kicks off her journey by first making her way from Lucknow to Deoria (part of Purvanchal, most people here speak Bhojpuri) by train.
We take a train from Lucknow to Deoria, and a 2-hour drive thereafter into the interior of U.P. in the Purvanchal area. On approaching a village, I hear a familiar voice giving a ‘bhashan’ (speech) in a ‘Nukkad Sabha’ (village gathering)…. I am then greeted by the sight of Sunaina Singhon a stage with the bright bold ARVP posterproviding an eclectic backdrop.
I try to grasp the entire picture and fit it into my head – about where I am and what I am about to experience. I am thinking to myself –“utar aaye hum UP ke rajneeti ke Rangmansh par”! (I’ve finally set foot on the political playground of the entire country – UP)…. & this is what it looks like!
Sunaina’s speech is mesmerizing. She speaks like a dream and is giving villagers statistics of foreign countries like France, U.S.A. and Dubai and the debt India has collected over the years and what we can do for India if we begin with changing U.P. What she is able to do is win over the collective goodwill and strike a chord with the people by appealing to their emotions.
After the speech, she personally goes to the villagers reminding them to press the button on the “Torch” (ARVP emblem). It is well past sundown now with no electricity in any of the villages, when we find ourselves making our way with the speakerjeep into other villages, where she meets with more village elders asking them permission to have nukkad sabhas in their areas.
It is well after 1-2 hours that we get to her village (Mathiya) house where we are once again accosted with a big ARVP poster at the entrance wall. The next day we start on a Padyatra into the surrounding villages near Mathiya where Sunaina and her circle leaders (2), and I accompany her. She individually goes to each house and family asking them for votes with yet another set of moving lines and speeches.
We cover a total of 6 villages in this manner and then make it to her Nukkad Sabha – where she is to deliver another speech that day.
As she goes into the villages on a padyatra, her circle team headed by her husband organise the entire logistics for her meeting. All she has to do is speak. Alongside her, members of her circle team give better speeches than Rahul Gandhi! She delivers another shattering speech for over 2 hours in the center of that town on a busy road surrounded by shops, buses,etc. The people accord her undivided attention and actually stay for 3 hours to hear her and her supporting crew.
She even manages to get donations in!!!
Overall this lady has it all figured out, backed with some matchless organization and teamwork that I have not even seen CEOs of MNCs exhibit! She has all the right ingredients for a win... most of all the hard work she has put in! What remains now is to live up to that image and the promises!
In Gorakhpur, I go to the court with the others to file their nominations. This is quite an experience for me as the “only” woman there at the time with male eyes glaring at me in the manner of a pack of wolves.
Briefly, what I experienced was everything I expected it to be like. Maybe because I’ve seen a lot of movies like Gangajal, Yuva etc., which were set in the same tone and background, I identified with it. Overall, I had a fabulous experience though the staying conditions in the villages were a little rough because of the cold weather, though I did know what to expect! It reminded me of my experiences in Africa, Ladakh and Nepal with no electricity, biting cold, open baths with cold water and fields to go relieve yourself in.
It’s sad to see so much of India still in this state and I really hope and pray that the coming set of political leaders will change this situation and make India progressively better with basic infrastructure like road, water, electricity and basic education for all.
Living in fast and furious Mumbai city, we often forget where and what rural India is like!
ELECTION HEAT ROUNDUP: It was quite like what I saw in the movies in my first experience here. Its only when you see posters of bigger parties like Congress, BSP, SP etc. with their big cars and resounding speakersdo you feel the competition.
I think I felt the heat most in the Gorakhpur court when leaders from all different parties came to file nominations. Everyone was inquiring about the other, chitter-chattering, questioning others’ preparations, responses, how their campaigns were progressing, strategies, etc.!
What ARVP has attempted is MISSION IMPOSSIBLE! It isamazing work…
This movement deserves to be moulded into an ocean of good for the sake of our country. Thank you!
ENDS
Sunday, 12 February 2012
On the history of Sanskrit
I am beginning to wonder what actual evidence there is that Sanskrit is as old as is usually claimed (5000 years, etc)
So far as I can see, we make this claim on the basis of imposing the view that Sanskrit "developed" from Vedic to Classical Sanskrit and so on
But I see no evidence for this. Once one begins to question the orthodox view that the Upanishads were compiled AFTER the Mantra Samhitas, and asks what is the evidence, one wonders why it could not have been the case that the Upanishads were compiled simultaneously with the Mantra Samhitas (if some groups of Aryans were, for example, more "mantric" and some more "upanishadic", as is the case even today?)
Specifically, on Panini: Why should it not have been the case that Panini was contemporary with the writers of the Vedas? Of course, we know nothing of when exactly Panini lived, and what we have are wild guesses ranging from the 8th century BC to the 4th century BC. But how do we know that Panini did not live in the 3rd century AD? After all the language of our earliest written records is Prakrit and, at least in north India, Prakrit was replaced by Sanskrit in our epigraphs only by the end of 3rd century AD. This seems to indicate NOT that Sanskrit is a very ancient language, rather that it developed FROM Prakrit, being therefore essentally a post-Buddhist language, which may have become established properly only with Shankaracharya's revolutionary activities in the 9th century AD, with what are now considered "orthodox" views being "read back" into history.
I will be very happy to have my questions answered one way or the other by evidence.
So far as I can see, we make this claim on the basis of imposing the view that Sanskrit "developed" from Vedic to Classical Sanskrit and so on
But I see no evidence for this. Once one begins to question the orthodox view that the Upanishads were compiled AFTER the Mantra Samhitas, and asks what is the evidence, one wonders why it could not have been the case that the Upanishads were compiled simultaneously with the Mantra Samhitas (if some groups of Aryans were, for example, more "mantric" and some more "upanishadic", as is the case even today?)
Specifically, on Panini: Why should it not have been the case that Panini was contemporary with the writers of the Vedas? Of course, we know nothing of when exactly Panini lived, and what we have are wild guesses ranging from the 8th century BC to the 4th century BC. But how do we know that Panini did not live in the 3rd century AD? After all the language of our earliest written records is Prakrit and, at least in north India, Prakrit was replaced by Sanskrit in our epigraphs only by the end of 3rd century AD. This seems to indicate NOT that Sanskrit is a very ancient language, rather that it developed FROM Prakrit, being therefore essentally a post-Buddhist language, which may have become established properly only with Shankaracharya's revolutionary activities in the 9th century AD, with what are now considered "orthodox" views being "read back" into history.
I will be very happy to have my questions answered one way or the other by evidence.
Tuesday, 7 February 2012
On Singleton's History of Yoga
Should have read, when it first came out, Dr Mark Singleton's
Yoga Body: The Origins of Modern Posture Practice (Oxford University Press, USA, 2010).
Turns out that yoga has been shaped as much by India as by Western and Christian influences!
I suspected a bit of this, but not the huge role of the Young Men's Christian Association (YMCA), with the Indian branch of which I was associated in the 1970s, without realising any of it!
In my family there was a long-standing interest in everything to do with traditional things, including massage, ayurveda, homeopathy, aromapathy....
Well, if you are interested in Indian spirituality or even just in yoga, Singleton is a "must read", full of interesting, shocking and amusing information. The book is simply and clearly written, but has the full academic panoply of notes and references to document Singleton's findings.
Yoga Body: The Origins of Modern Posture Practice (Oxford University Press, USA, 2010).
Turns out that yoga has been shaped as much by India as by Western and Christian influences!
I suspected a bit of this, but not the huge role of the Young Men's Christian Association (YMCA), with the Indian branch of which I was associated in the 1970s, without realising any of it!
In my family there was a long-standing interest in everything to do with traditional things, including massage, ayurveda, homeopathy, aromapathy....
Well, if you are interested in Indian spirituality or even just in yoga, Singleton is a "must read", full of interesting, shocking and amusing information. The book is simply and clearly written, but has the full academic panoply of notes and references to document Singleton's findings.
Sunday, 5 February 2012
Indians now on India
A friend of mine, born and brought up in India, though living abroad for the last few decades, who has always loved his time in India, has had a couple of brushes with the Indian police and legal system as a result of having bought something. This has involved him in massive expense and time-wasteage, and he has now vowed never to buy anything of any serious value in the country.
He writes to me "the whole India scene is disgusting", though he still loves to visit.
How come we have made such a mess of our country that it is now only worth visiting as a tourist, not living in as a citizen?
He writes to me "the whole India scene is disgusting", though he still loves to visit.
How come we have made such a mess of our country that it is now only worth visiting as a tourist, not living in as a citizen?
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